32. Networking Basics: How networking works and why networking is important so you can use it for growth (with J Kelly Hoey)

[00:00:00] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Yes. But when we think about expanding into new areas with our career, we don't think about it until we magically want it to happen. And then we're in that position of, oh, let's send out some cold emails or let me reach out to that colleague that I used to work with, who I was a complete jerk to, but somehow I think they're going to help me now.

[00:00:21] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): It's really career move moves or two to look at the health of your network and the diversity in the widest sense. Do you have a range of people in your network who are in different careers and industries and sectors, because if you've got those people already in your network and you're looking to make.

[00:00:42] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): A career move and a shift into something you haven't done before is a heck of a lot easier when you built relationships with people who already know and trust you. 

[00:00:52] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): How could I network and build relationships when I'm stuck behind a screen?

[00:00:56] Jette Stubbs: when you're choosing who you should reach out to and what you should say. 

[00:00:59] Jette Stubbs: Today. We are talking with networking expert, J Kelly Hoey, who is the author of build your dream network, forging powerful relationships relationships in a hyper-connected world. Which is published by penguin random house. She's working on her second book, which focuses on the unique networks women need. 

[00:01:18] Jette Stubbs: You're listening to the happy career formula with Jette Stubbs where we talk about how to find what you love to do and turn it into ways to make money, whether that's a job, freelance service or a business, so you can live life on your own terms. 

[00:01:33] Jette Stubbs: So welcome Kelly. I'm so excited to have you on the podcast to talk about all of the networking advice that you have to give.

[00:01:42] Jette Stubbs: I am so thrilled to be here. Thanks for inviting me to be on your show. So how did 

[00:01:46] Jette Stubbs: you get into networking 

[00:01:49] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): accidentally? One of the pieces of networking advice I give to people is listen to your network because they may see more in you than you see yourself. So what are the things they ask you for? What is the advice and guidance they come to you often for?

[00:02:05] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Because it could be something you do really simply is your secret sauce. Or you could realize you're networking the wrong things to your network, and they're asking you to do the things that you don't want to do, and maybe you need to switch it up and educate them. My career to being what I am today, I started out as an attorney.

[00:02:25] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Which is a client business development, you know, driven business, you get things through word of mouth referrals. So I needed to build a network both internally and externally to advance in the legal profession. I then moved, wanted to change careers into law firm management, and I needed to build a network.

[00:02:44] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Another different word of mouth network, because I quickly discovered that those roles were filled by insiders. And you had to know them to tell you when there was a job opening from there I want to say building relationships with colleagues. Because I was in a function in management that had no staff and no budget, but I was expected to do a lot of things and get a lot of things done.

[00:03:07] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): So I needed to build internal networks. And then lo and behold, I was invited to become the president of a global business network for women. And it was a long, those journeys. You know, people said to me, you do this thing differently, Kelly, you do this thing called networking differently. And because it was so intuitive, To me jet.

[00:03:26] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): And then, and in terms of, you know, like this muscle, I work that the first time someone suggested to me that maybe I needed to share my networking ideas, my network, building ideas with other people, I told them they were a first-class idiot. Cause it was the stupidest idea I'd ever heard. And it was also then that I think the seed was planted for me to realize that no, no, no.

[00:03:50] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): This thing I do so naturally. And in a way that is slightly different than everybody else is actually unique to me and not, you know, not the way everybody else thinks. So there's a little background and a little adventure on how I got to where I am today. 

[00:04:07] Jette Stubbs: It definitely sounds like and adventure.

[00:04:08] Jette Stubbs: So what are some of the things that you do differently that made people say, oh, this is because to go from saying I'm not really a networking expert to leading an initiative for women to network is a big job. So what are some of those things that you do differently? Can you share some of those secrets?

[00:04:25] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Yeah one of the things, you know, let's go through the various stages in my life. Let's go back to when I was practicing law. I realized at that time, when I started practicing that there was a inherent tension in the career. I had chosen on one hand, I needed to do the work, which required me to sit at a desk and pound out, you know, documents and, you know, put in client hours and all of that kind of stuff.

[00:04:53] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): The S the other part, which was, you know, creates a tension is to advance in that chosen career. I needed to build relationships. One is requiring, if we think about what we think about networking, one is requiring me to build relationships, which we immediately think of is, oh, how do I have lunch with someone?

[00:05:12] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): How do I have coffee with someone? How do I write things that involve time? And the other thing, which also involved time was doing the work. And so I saw too many people in that profession, you know, focused on one and not the other, and that didn't advance them to where they want it to go. You had to do both things.

[00:05:35] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): So how do you resolve that tension? So in my mind, networking, isn't the one and done schmoozing. It's not going to a conference or just going to a conference or just grabbing coffee with someone it's every single human interaction. How do you say hello to someone? How do you greet someone? Do you remember a birthday party or, or do you remember their birthday?

[00:05:59] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Do you remember an anniversary? Do you acknowledge a career milestone they've had because they've changed their LinkedIn profile. What's on your email signature line. All of these are opportunities to build and further a relationship. And those micro networking actions, those continually showing up that's what builds trust.

[00:06:25] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): And that is the foundation of a strong relationship. So that was eye-opening lesson number one. How can I network when I'm stuck at my desk? And it's a really good analogy to think about where we are right now. How could I network and build relationships when I'm stuck behind a screen, because we're still in a pandemic.

[00:06:46] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): And my ease of engaging with people has been well. We've had a big roadblock in the way. If we continue to only think of networking as coffee, dates and conferences and. Shaking of hands and all of that kind of stuff. So that was lesson number one, lesson number two, when I think about networking is you got to build it before you need it.

[00:07:13] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Mm that's so true. Too many people don't maintain or nurture their existing network. We take our coworkers. For example, for example, we take them for granted. We take college classmates for granted. Rather than thinking, wow, this can be part of something to support me and I can support them through it the entire lifetime of my career.

[00:07:40] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Yes. But when we think about expanding into new areas with our career, we don't think about it until we magically want it to happen. And then we're in that position of, oh, let's send out some cold emails or let me reach out to that colleague that I used to work with, who I was a complete jerk to, but somehow I think they're going to help me now.

[00:08:01] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Right. So it's, it's really career move moves or two to look at the health of your network and the diversity in the widest sense. Do you have a range of people in your network who are in different careers and industries and sectors, because if you've got those people already in your network and you're looking to make.

[00:08:24] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): A career move and a shift into something you haven't done before is a heck of a lot easier when you built relationships with people who already know and trust you. So that kind of, you know, lesson number two, lesson number three is don't just think that it's, you know, Relationships outside of your current place of work that are, or your school or your class, whatever it may be.

[00:08:48] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Don't think relationships like the ones outside of that are the important ones, your peer relationships with the people you interact with regularly, whether it's at school or at work. Are critical. They help you get your work done is they're advancing up the career ladder. You know, you're working with them or working alongside of them.

[00:09:09] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): You're going to get more and better mentorship advice from that community. Then, you know, someone with. You know, more years of experience in you know, on a, say an irrelevant career timeline and all the rest of that kind of stuff. So someone who dealt with a problem a week ago was a heck of a lot more relevant to you than someone who dealt with a problem 30 years ago.

[00:09:32] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Last thing I'd say, you know, in terms of thinking, all right, how do you put your rear in front of serendipity? As mine was when I became the president of a global business network for women. You know, was all about how you show up and it goes back to that diversity and putting yourselves in front, putting your career, your talents, your skills in front of a wider audience.

[00:09:55] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): We can all join. We can all create a Twitter account or LinkedIn account. We can all find a membership organization and slider credit card and become a member. And then you can choose to get involved and engaged, or you can choose to sit there like a lump on a log and hope that somehow this community, you know, Anoints you and drops, networking fairy dust, and turns you into something fantastic.

[00:10:21] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): And the story become behind becoming the president of this global business network for women was I rolled up my sleeves and became very visible and involved and I was asking good questions. And it was, oh, let me think. Six to nine months after I joined. This network. The founder called me and said she wants to know more about me because she saw what I was doing.

[00:10:47] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): And she saw that I was engaged in a different way than other members. And I told her about the job I had at the time and what I was up to. And at the end of an hour long phone call, she offered me a job that previously had never existed. 

[00:11:00] Jette Stubbs: That's that's amazing. So those are like three amazing pieces of advice.

[00:11:06] Jette Stubbs: I want to go back to one of the things that you said in your second piece, he said, you know, reaching out to people, but instead of trying to reach out to the person that's like light years ahead of you reach out to somebody. Who's just like that few steps ahead of you, because I think that's something that's so common when.

[00:11:21] Jette Stubbs: People are trying to reach out to people for for jobs. They often will ask me, I actually, I had somebody messaged me on LinkedIn this morning asking me, should I reach out to the director and the hiring manager and the CEO to get this opportunity. And I'm like, this is a massive corporation. Why are you trying to reach out to the director and see you?

[00:11:40] Jette Stubbs: I said, are there any people who are on that team? That you can find on LinkedIn. So you can get some insider advice from people who are on the team who are at your level, who recently got higher there or been there for a year. So what's your advice on how you choose who you reach out to? Cause a lot of those same principles apply to business.

[00:11:59] Jette Stubbs: People will try and reach out to the billion dollar CEO. And I'm not saying they shouldn't shoot your shot, but you should know what you're talking about. So what's your advice when you're choosing who you should reach out to and what you should say. 

[00:12:09] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): First of all, in terms of, let me pack the last part, what you should say, there is an element this, with this piece of networking that is processed and an element of it that is.

[00:12:19] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): People, what makes networking hard is you have to deal with other people. And if you think there's a formula and a one size fits all outreach, you are going to you're not going to have the same results because you've forgotten about the person. And every time it should be customized and personalized.

[00:12:38] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): To that individual. And I agree with you sometimes with networking, I have to think like American football, sometimes you do have to throw a hail Mary and say, you know what, I'm just going for the CEO and I'm going to send his best well-crafted email that I can and hope that it lands. But other times it's more if you think of a football game, you know, a quarterback is part of a team.

[00:13:01] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): And you marched slowly down on the fields and you try different things. And so your example of why reach out to the honcho, where you may know someone who interned at that company last summer, and wouldn't it be better to talk to them and say, tell me about your experience, what worked, Hey, you how'd, you get your internship, you know?

[00:13:21] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Cause I see for their current opportunities, it's an online portal. Did you have another connection? Was there certain information in terms of adding it to your application on the online portal that they paid attention to? You know, any guidance you could give me would be really helpful. So some of this is like information gathering as opposed to thinking, oh, I'm going to go from, you know, I want to work at this company to talking to someone about working at this company.

[00:13:49] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): There's, you know, there's learning steps in between that may. I showed him make you a more I want to say attractive candidate. You also may gain information that would say to you, oh dear. You know, this opportunity to look better on a website. And I don't think they're my kind of tribe. Let me look at something else.

[00:14:08] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): And your peer could tell you that if you're going to if you've looked around in your network and you're like, okay, there, I don't know anybody. You know, do your research. Understand, not only that, Hey, this is a great opportunity for me. What do you bring to the table and how can I distinguish my application from anybody else?

[00:14:33] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): There's an, a wonderful case study in my book exactly on this point where someone was able to convey to the recipients of her cover letters that she understood the industry. She understood where the opportunities were. She understood how and why they had a need to hire, even though they had an advertised position how her skillset fit in.

[00:15:01] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): And by showing that she was a solution to someone else's problem at a time when people weren't hiring like visibly hiring in her chosen industry, she got multiple job offers, but. Think about this opportunity to reach out and figure out who, you know, it's also a great way to connect with your existing network to be able to say to them, wow, I'm really interested in working in this kind of a role at this company or this kind of a role with a company such as, because we need to remember our networks have like our network has a network.

[00:15:42] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): You're connected through to so many more people and they, again, it enables you to connect with and strengthen your relationships with the people you already know. If you can let them know about your career dreams, your aspirations, the kinds of things you're thinking about applying for, because they're the people who've got the greatest interest in helping you.

[00:16:03] Jette Stubbs: I love that advice. So if you had to, do you have any like frameworks or structures that you give people for advice on? Cause you said do research. What does doing your research look like to figure out who you should be receipt re speaking to you? I know you said speak to people at closer level to you, but I always tell people as well, don't.

[00:16:25] Jette Stubbs: Don't go there asking for a job, trying to understand the problems that the company is facing. Like some people can give you insider information into the people who are on those teams. Can you give insight, insight or information to the challenges that that organization is facing the upcoming challenges that the team is facing?

[00:16:41] Jette Stubbs: How can you then plug yourself in to solve those kinds of problems? But a lot of times people struggle with what do I say? How do I ask those questions? Do you have any advice around that area? 

[00:16:52] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Yeah. So here's what I would do is first of all think about narrowing down what your job search is, and also informing yourself on what the roles are and who your ideal companies would be to go and work for it.

[00:17:11] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): If you don't have the name of an ideal company, Kind of a context. Like I want to work for a company where they invest in or they, you know, whatever it may be, but really have clarity on what kind of role like, so he was like, oh, I'm just looking for a job. Is if you ask your network Hey, I'm looking for a job.

[00:17:29] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): That's a really big amorphous ask that is very hard for your network to grasp onto as opposed to something very specific. The, why would think of it is get a piece of paper write on the top, what your goal is. You know, my goal is to land a, you know, fill in the job, fill in the type of company. And then in the first, then below that, pick a piece of paper and put them in three columns in the first column.

[00:17:57] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Think about right. What are the questions I have about working in this industry? Maybe it's who's hiring. Maybe it's not rural, but I've got an English degree. Are there people who got you? No, a majors in English, literature or medieval history or anthropology who have doesn't this like right at like a grocery list?

[00:18:22] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Like what are the questions I have? And then I want you to think about who could answer that question because. People are this connector into getting our problem solved? Can answer your question. And in that may be, oh, maybe career services at my college can answer this. Maybe a search on the internet can answer this.

[00:18:46] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): You know, there's all sorts of ways in terms of, oh, maybe that community group, maybe that meetup, my friend told me about maybe they can answer this. So then think about who is the right person to ask this question to. And then think about the, where you get your answer and what you ask them for. So let's use this in practice.

[00:19:08] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): These part of this jet is I think when we tell people to go out and network, we immediately jumped to, oh, I should do an informational interview and I'll, I'll email them and I'll ask them for, you know, coffee date, maybe it's on zoom and I'll suggest three days and three times. And then when we get on it, I'll ask them to tell me about themselves and maybe on the basis of that.

[00:19:29] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): All right. You know, figure out what else I need to ask them. You know, your chances of getting a positive response before or after the pandemic on that kind of outreach to someone you don't know is really slim nurses. If you reach out to them with something, you know, they are capable of answering and probably would be really happy, happy to answer.

[00:19:54] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): So let me take myself as my own example. When I had the idea to write a book, the first thing I did was not post on Facebook to say everybody, Hey, I'm might want to write a book. Everybody who can help me, I sat down. I thought, what the heck goes into writing a book? Where do you even start? What does he, what does, what goes on in the publishing industry?

[00:20:18] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): I don't know. Do you have to write a book proposal or the entire book? What does it take to get a literary agent when's the right time to get a literary agent? So I literally had all these questions and then I thought to myself, who's the right person to ask a particular question to. And then I started scouring in my network, so that.

[00:20:40] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): You know, I could see because we can all get really big networks and all of a sudden we're like, holy smokes. I didn't know. I had someone who could actually answer that question. So then I went to my network and I was like, oh, here's someone I know who actually works in publishing. So I emailed them and said, would you have a conversation with me about how the publishing industry works with respect to a nonfiction book?

[00:21:03] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): So even narrowed it down. And I just asked them the question. So that they could decide how they want it to give me the information they could have said, there's a blog post. I wrote it's all right here. And then I would have read the blog post and then it would have followed up with them with some followup questions, but instead they said, let's grab lunch.

[00:21:24] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Let me give you a whole data dump. And I'm like rock and roll. Perfect. And by the way, I'm not the go for lunch person. It's not my first choice. It's not something blame it on being a lawyer for years, I'm used to eating my lunch at my desk. So there's that. Then I thought, what goes into pitching a book?

[00:21:42] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Do you, you know, do you have to have a literary agent? Do you ha can you go through a publisher? And then, oh, look, there's a couple of friends in my network who were recently or in the process of writing books. So I was able to ask them and I got very different perspectives from three or four different people, so that I could then decide the pros and cons of do I self publish?

[00:22:05] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Do I, you know you know, you, and you can start to say, okay, Kelly, this is writing a book, but you start thinking about it with your own career. You don't want to work for a big company. Do I work for a solo practitioner? Do I go for, you know, like who do I go for? What's the pros and what's the con. And then that enabled me to narrow to say, you know what?

[00:22:24] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): After talking to various people, my chosen route is to get a literary agent and get a big publisher. Now let's talk about the process to get a literary agent and a desirable one. And how's the best way to meet someone. Do I just randomly reach out? Is it better if I get a warm introduction? So you can see this one big goal to get a book published starts to become a grocery list, and I'm going down a whole lot of Isles grabbing a bunch of different things, but at the end, this got me to where I wanted to go.

[00:22:56] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): In a timeline that was well-planned out so that I landed the literary agent of my dreams. I landed the publisher of my dreams. And the time and workspace in preparing the research part of networking was probably, you know, what it ultimately was probably less, hi, I'm in my situation then if I'd haphazardly gone about it in the.

[00:23:23] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Sort of spray and pray model of just posting madly and, you know, doing cold outreach and not turning to my network and very methodically and considerately and purposefully planning my networking strategy. 

[00:23:39] Jette Stubbs: That really takes me very well into the next question. How do you prioritize who you would reach out to first and how you like yeah.

[00:23:49] Jette Stubbs: How do you prioritize the, the, who. 

[00:23:51] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): What do you need to know? How do you, so don't so many people start with networking, you know, this networking equation of I'm going to grab a coffee date with someone important and hope they give me something that I want, where I'm like, what's your question?

[00:24:10] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): What is it that you need to know? Who's the best person to answer that question. And then what's the best way to reach them, not your preference. It's the people have preference for lunch dates, right? Or coffee dates or, Hey Kelly, let's jump on another zoom where I might, I just want to get you an answer.

[00:24:31] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): So you asked me a specific question and I will direct you to the answer. 

[00:24:36] Jette Stubbs: Okay. That's, that's amazing advice. And how did this transition for you as you're starting out? Like now you've always had to build out your own networks and be entrepreneurial, even if you were working for a company, but how has that shifted?

[00:24:52] Jette Stubbs: How you approach networking from a purely entrepreneurial lens versus when you're trying to do it within a corporation or for a company 

[00:24:58] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): as an entrepreneur? You're probably by design. You're always having to look ahead because you're wondering where your next customer or client, you know, where's, where's the marketing funnel.

[00:25:09] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Or as I like to think of where's the networking funnel, you know, are there enough inputs from your outreach that you're getting the opportunities, the clients, the, you know, the things that you need to grow your business in a company? I think we can be a little bit heads-down. And not think ahead. And with technology making so many shifts and changes, no, you, it really behooves you to have that same entrepreneurial mindset as it comes to your career.

[00:25:46] Jette Stubbs: Okay. And now that you are taking on more of that entrepreneurial approach, what are you, how are you approaching, like building out your network? And, and thinking ahead, like how can you walk me through, like, how you think about networking, if you're thinking, okay, I'm trying to get these clients to come into my business.

[00:26:05] Jette Stubbs: I'm now going out. You've been a networking expert for a while as a head of a networking organized. Networking focused organization for women, but now you're trying to say, okay, I want consistent clients to come to my business. Can you walk me through how you think about networking for that? You've given you gave a great example for our career approach, but can you give a business example now?

[00:26:25] Jette Stubbs: Yeah. I 

[00:26:26] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): mean, there's lessons from the career approach that I still applies today is, you know, the one that, you know, people who know you and trust you the most are probably your best funnel. So how are you doing things too? Continue to nurture them and help them so that they in turn want to help you.

[00:26:45] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Okay. So there's that secondly, realizing that those micro networking actions of, you know, remembering a birthday, acknowledging an anniversary or promotion Having been a good coworker or colleague with someone or volunteered with them years ago. And you were, you know, that helpful person with them when you've invested that time.

[00:27:07] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): It doesn't matter the lapse of time, if you've been that good person, that lapse of time or the lapse of time between interactions is less likely to impede you in terms of the ability to reach out in the future and ask for help. The, the, the building your network before you need it and being hyper aware of what your business needs, is it same as like with your career?

[00:27:32] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Because that whole process of me having built an entirely new network, you know, not to scare everybody, but to build that cross network. So people were sending me opportunities 18 months. It change careers when I wanted to change careers. And it was a lot of repetitive actions with the same people over and over again.

[00:27:55] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): So you got to think about how you're adding value. So some of the things I did before are the same things I do today, not dramatically different, but it's always looking ahead to say, is there something different? My network needs another example for from the book publishing days was when I decided to write a book.

[00:28:17] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): And I had, all I had done at this point was. Write a book proposal and had the literary agent and thinking, all right, we're gonna, we're gonna get, we're gonna get a book deal. As I was looking, cause I was doing a lot of public speaking and I had quite a high profile in New York city through the startup community.

[00:28:36] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): And I looked and I thought, you know what? What's going to happen with a timeline of this book is there's going to be this timeline where at some point I'm going to be busy writing. And I'm not going to have as much time to do marketing, but if I fall off the face of the earth, you know, that's really gonna screw me when it comes time to write, have, you know, a book launch.

[00:29:01] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): I need a broad audience, not just the people who already know me. So there was a very proactive time period. That any networking events that were in New York city, I turned down. Because I knew I had a network here and I knew I could activate and support. I could support it without involving a lot of my time because I'd already invested the time in it.

[00:29:26] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): And it had strong relationships, but I needed to cultivate new relationships so that I wasn't showing up in 24 months saying, Hey folks in Omaha, Nebraska, don't you want to talk about my book instead? I could say, Hey, my new friends in Omaha, Nebraska. My book's coming out on this date, what can we do together?

[00:29:47] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): And so it was very, it was a very funny time periods. My New York friends were all like, whoa, you're turning us down, but I see that you're in, you know, new Orleans. And I see that you're in this and I see that you're in that, but why aren't you doing anything for us? And I'm like, because I have a multitude of things I need to do, but I can't rock the ball.

[00:30:10] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): On expanding my network because I'm going to need a broader and bigger network when it comes time to book launch. 

[00:30:17] Jette Stubbs: Absolutely. What are some tools that you use? One of the things that I do is I keep an Excel spreadsheet with people who I've connected with what they're looking for, how I can be of service to them, like what their, their overall career business goal is.

[00:30:33] Jette Stubbs: So that when I'm meeting new people, I can connect them. And that even as I'm getting guests for the podcast and guesting on other podcasts, I always ask podcast hosts, w what type of person are you looking for? So I can refer some of my guests to you. And I asked podcasts podcast guests like, Hey, if you're ever guesting someplace, this is what I'm looking for.

[00:30:51] Jette Stubbs: Tell me what you're looking for so I can connect you and it just building out those relationships. What tools do you use? Do you do something similar where you keep an Excel spreadsheet or is it all in your head? If you're not good, 

[00:31:02] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): a little, a little bow? This is where it's really helpful to always have that ask of like right here right now.

[00:31:07] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): How can someone help you too? I think this is where to say, right? What kind of person are you? I know some people are total spreadsheet people I'm not, and that's time for a different story. You know, it's also to think about where people leave information. So because our network, you know, they drop little bits about themselves all over the place.

[00:31:28] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Some of it may be an email. Some of it may be on Facebook. Some of it may be on Snapchat. Some of it may be on Twitter. Some of it may be on LinkedIn. So some of this is, you know, you need to keep, you know, I'm what's the crazy I'm which crazy animal I'm thinking of that can roll with eyes around and, you know, 360, is it?

[00:31:46] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): And there are lizard that can do that. Like it needs to be able to look all around. Because part of this with networking is you want to be heard, but you need to observe and listen more to how the other person shares and receives information. One of the tools I do, like in terms of after all of that is a habit, which enables you to, it pulls in information from a variety of sources and they're very privacy concerned.

[00:32:13] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): So that's why I liked them as well. I'm not comfortable with digital platforms that make promises in terms of making you a better networker that then sell your data because. Your predictions and your information about them or your personal data. That's, those are your relationships and you have to guard and protect those.

[00:32:29] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): The thing I'd one thing I'd say, and you probably do this, but I need to say the thing you need to do in terms of making introductions is knowing what people want and then asking them before making a connection, because the timing may be wrong. And I have too many, you know, emails like in my inbox of people saying, Hey, you two should know each other, or I think you two can help each other.

[00:32:52] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): And I'm like, I'm in the middle of something. I don't have time for this or the other person hasn't checked to see whether this is good timing or whether you do want to know that person, because we can make assumptions. And, you know, there was one person I had a conversation with and I'm like on the email, I'm like, I don't know why we're connected.

[00:33:10] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): And she's I'm glad you said that. Cause I don't know why we're connected to, and what's happened now, the person who has made the connection, thinking they were being helpful. And enhancing their status as a connector have now been swirly downgraded. And makes me very hesitant in terms of, you know, what they promise and what they reach out in the, in the future.

[00:33:32] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): So it's much better even if, you know, to say, Hey, are you still looking to do more podcasts? Are you still looking for more guests for your podcast? Are you still promoting that project? Do you need some, do you have capacity right now to meet someone? Cause I met someone the other day and I think they'd be really useful to you.

[00:33:47] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Here's their LinkedIn profile. Check them out. Let me know that. I think that in interim in-between step is a smart one to take. 

[00:33:56] Jette Stubbs: I love it. And you brought it up all of these different social media channels, and you said, you know what? You should put yourself out there. But sometimes when you're trying to network, you can feel like you're being pulled in a million different directions, trying to network across so many different channels.

[00:34:09] Jette Stubbs: How do you narrow down? Which channel you think is best to like network on? For me, I chose podcasting because it aligns with I don't like, I don't love video. I don't like putting myself out there on video a lot. I don't mind like talking to you, like you can see me right now, right? But every, I don't want everybody to right now.

[00:34:26] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): So I mentioned all, I mentioned all those platforms because you need to be aware of them thinking someone in business, you need to be aware and you may think, oh God, I'm so over Facebook, I don't want to be on Facebook. But then if you realize all your customers are there, you may need to make a business to choice of doing your networking somewhere else, or finding an alternative strategy or having to suck it up and get back on Facebook.

[00:34:52] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): So it's also being aware of where other people share information. Even if you say, oh, I'm not going to do this. You need to understand how they want to communicate. I had an attorney a number of years ago who said to me Oh, none of my clients, none of the people I interact with are on Twitter. And I'm like, oh really?

[00:35:11] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): They're not, are they? This was like a bat and a gamble that I, I knew I was going to win the minute it came out of his mouth and the next morning I emailed him in his office and I'm like, You mentioned these five private equity firms or your clients. I said, here's their Twitter handles. Here's the 10 or 15 other private equity firms who are their competitors, by the way, here's your competitor law firms and, you know, 65 or 75 Witter handles later.

[00:35:40] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): I said, so what part of not being on Twitter? I'm not saying you need to be there weekend away, but you need to be aware that they are there because they may be sharing information in insights that can give you, you know, the way to get your foot in the door or the way to enhance a relationship further with them.

[00:36:01] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Or maintain a relationship before somebody else nudges in because they're having the cocktail party on Twitter with your client, because you're too busy thinking that's not what they do. So you need to be aware of your preferences, but you also need to be really aware of somebody else's. So you may just need to observe what they're doing somewhere else.

[00:36:21] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): You've also given a indication of your preference. So someone wanting to interview, you could look around and go. Okay. She does a lot of podcasts, but there's no video for this. Maybe she doesn't like to do video so that they could say to you, I'd love to interview you. Are you comfortable with video or not?

[00:36:39] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): And if you're, I really prefer to do a video and have that on YouTube, but if you're not comfortable with that, you know, let me know, or do you need the heads up warning in advance? So you're like, okay, let me get myself shushed up. Let me get my background. Ah, let me brace myself. This is going to exist.

[00:36:55] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Think of it. It's not just about you when you're networking, you need to be hyper-aware. But you need to think more about the other person. And you know, this is where, like I said, this is where networking gets. It gets hard because we're so into our own problems and challenges and, and the help we need.

[00:37:16] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Or the market we want or the audience or whatever, where we want to sell something that we're not thinking of this other person and how, what we have could solve their problem. You, you nailed it before you said, how could I be of service now? You know, even if when you were applying for a job, you know, where are your skillset?

[00:37:38] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Where are they the solution to somebody else's problem? Where is your product or service the solution to someone's. Real problem in a real way, not in a generic, it's a big market and you know, all women, 35 to 45 have this problem, no, this particular company. And you can gain those insights by really paying attention to what other people are spitting out on other social channels, but find the social channels, find the net and, and let's not even call them social.

[00:38:13] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Let's go find the networking avenues. That worked best for you. Cause that's when you're going to be authentic, that's when you're going to be genuine. That's when you're going to make the best human connection. So for you it's podcasting rock and roll. But my guess is you're aware of what other people that you want to get in front of are doing.

[00:38:33] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Absolutely 

[00:38:35] Jette Stubbs: definitely am aware. Definitely going to eventually have to upgrade to video, but not there yet. Taking my baby steps So I know the listeners, like those of you who are listening to this would be mad at me. If I didn't ask you, how do you deal with confidence when it comes to networking?

[00:38:53] Jette Stubbs: How do you deal with that confidence when it comes to putting yourself out there, where you always confident Kelly at putting yourself out there and how did you build that confidence? If you weren't 

[00:39:03] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): listen, you build the confidence, you know, one networking outreach at a time. And that's why I think these micro networking activities and really taking approach to networking as I outlined and build your dream network makes a difference.

[00:39:18] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): And I'm so sure of it because interestingly, I've, I've done a number of sort of beta testing and programming recently ran some mastermind groups around networking and the networks that women need. And. How they can advance their careers through networks. And so I'm thinking I'm doing networking programming.

[00:39:42] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): When I ask participants for feedback and what they gained most, they were like confidence. And I'm like, not in the competence business, I'm in a networking business, but it seems to me because, you know, being able to take these little steps, and taking just one action rather than thinking, oh my God, I have to expose myself and I'm vulnerable.

[00:40:05] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): And I, you know, if we stay in that old networking mindset that, you know, you walk into a room of strangers and you ask someone to help you and you have to have an elevator pitch or, you know, like rather than saying, who do I already know? How can I ask them for help? Or how can I educate myself more so that I reach out.

[00:40:26] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): With a little smarter background, rather than just Hey, I'm looking at a job and your company looks cool. Could we talk friends with might've preceded the bounce like that,

[00:40:34] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): taking those little actions and realizing, you know, a step every day. And then realizing that, checking in to see how someone is realizing that. Volunteering and mentoring realizing that being a good collaborator at work, realizing that being the good person on a project wishing, realizing that all of that is networking and enhances your relationships that can give you the confidence, like to keep doing those things and being, and knowing that you have people to turn to from help.

[00:41:09] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): And that's how you gain your confidence. 

[00:41:11] Jette Stubbs: That is amazing advice. Is there anything else that I haven't asked you that you want to share ? 

[00:41:16] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): I think we've covered a whole lot of stuff. I You know, what I'd say is if this information is helpful when they listened to the podcast you know, a, let us know.

[00:41:28] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): No. Hey, good networking is to rate and review and recommend a podcast episode. You may not think that's networking. It is networking. Think about all the people in your own network that this could be really helpful too. So share the episode and share the takeaways. And when you share it, if you're sharing it publicly, tag us so that we know that and find, you know, find the podcast online, find me online and.

[00:41:53] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): If there's a question that hasn't been covered, you know, I'd like to know about it and that's, Hey, that's when we'll have more to say, if there's anything else I want to share, that's when I'll share it. When someone asks the question after they've listened to this conversation, 

[00:42:06] Jette Stubbs: I love that advice, Kelly.

[00:42:08] Jette Stubbs: So where can people go to find you and learn more about what you do and get your 

[00:42:12] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): book? So you know, what a great place to go is my website. Cause all my social handles, they're there. Plus my blog and all sorts of other information. And that's J Kelly hoey.co. So that's J K E L L Y H O E Y. Dot com.

[00:42:28] Jette Stubbs: Amazing. Thank you so much for all the advice that you gave today. It, it was, it was incredible. I think so many people are going to benefit from the networking advice and Kelly said, just take it step by step. And those baby steps will help you build out the confidence, just reach out to people.

[00:42:46] Jette Stubbs: And the worst thing people can say is no. And then you move on to the next one and you get better at it with each time. So practice makes perfect. And yes, everybody is nervous in the beginning, but you sat to your advantage and recognizing that they may be just as nervous as you are, especially if you're reaching out to people at your level.

[00:43:04] Jette Stubbs: Yes. I love it. They are 

[00:43:06] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): even older. People are anxious. So remember that everyone's make it easier for someone to say yes and realize that there are no, maybe a no right now, because we're living in crazy times, but just make a better ask. So you get the yes. Or the more importantly you get the information, your career businesses seeking.

[00:43:28] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): I love 

[00:43:28] Jette Stubbs: it. Thank you so 

[00:43:29] Jette Stubbs: much. 

[00:43:30] J. Kelly Hoey (@JKellyHoey): Thank you. I've loved this conversation.

[00:43:32] Jette Stubbs: You're listening to the happy career formula with Jette Stubbs where we talk about how to find what you love to do and turn it into ways to make money, whether that's a job, freelance service or a business, so you can live life on your own terms. 

[00:43:47] Jette Stubbs: this is a career and business podcast, but my two main goals for what I want to offer you are: one the tools to build a career that aligns with who you are.

[00:43:58] Jette Stubbs: So you can make money in a way that funds your life goals and the lifestyle that you want to build for yourself. Two, to have healthier relationships with yourself and others. 

[00:44:09] Jette Stubbs: Because I think that if you have your financial resources together and you have good people around you, you can live a happier life.

[00:44:17] Jette Stubbs: Subscribe and leave a review if you are enjoying the podcast. if you know somebody who you think may find this useful, please feel free to share it, with a friend.

Learn more at: https://jkellyhoey.co/