28. How to go from a "dead-end" job with no growth to negotiating a promotion without switching companies (with Nicole Tschierske)

Episode: 28. How to go from a "dead-end" job with no growth to negotiating a promotion without switching companies (with Nicole Tschierske)

Jette Stubbs: [00:00:00] Have you ever felt you're stuck at a job and it feels like it's a dead end job. Maybe you were loving this job or maybe the moment you got into it, you knew it wasn't going anywhere. And you're at this place where you're trying to show employers that you can do more. You are trying to convince them or trying to figure out your way out of this data and unchallenging role.

And you're not sure what to do or how to fix it. So today we're going to be talking with Nicole cheer, SCA, and she's going to tell you why you don't need to look for a new job, the moment you feel under challenged and overlooked and how to create a position you love in the company you already work for.

 lot of times when I talk about How to find what you love to do and sell yourself whether it's a job freelance or regional business. I talk about that transition from a job to a freelance service, to a business where you're serving multiple clients and you have systems in place, but what if you don't want a business [00:01:00] yet?

What if you just want to find a different job? I teach those things. I teach you how to align more jobs you love, but what about. If you just want to convince your employer, that you can get onto this next cool project. You're not even necessarily looking for a full job title change. You just want to expand what you do and the portfolio of your work a little bit.

Nicole is going to talk to us about this today. She's also going to share with us how the unhelpful labels of imposter syndrome and lack of confidence are sabotaging your growth and what you can do to build senior level credibility. So I. Initially, when I read this and heard this, I was like, unhelpful labels, imposter syndrome.

I wasn't sure, but you're going to see while Y what Nicole is saying actually makes a lot of sense. And she's going to give you advice and tips. You can use to build your credibility and [00:02:00] start getting your points and ideas addressed. Let's get started talking with Nicole so we can make this Wednesday less of a hump day and more of a game plan to build a path that you're excited about in your career. .

You're listening to the happy career formula 

with Jette Stubbs 

where we talk about how to find what you love to do and turn it into ways to make money, whether that's a job, freelance service or a business, so you can live life on your own terms. 

this is a career and business podcast, but my two main goals for what I want to offer you are: one the tools to build a career that aligns with who you are. 

today. I'm so excited because we're going to be talking with Nicole tschierske. Nicole is a PA is passionate about helping overlooked women in stem. So that's science, technology, engineering and math become influential. So they can confidently unlock new opportunities for themselves. Get their employer [00:03:00] saying we need you on this job and make it.

A bigger impact as a scientist and positive psychology coach, Nicole helps her clients strategically turn their career frustrations into renewed love for their work. So thank you so so much, Nicole, for joining me on the 

Nicole Tschierske: podcast today. Yeah, I'm happy to be here, jet.

Jette Stubbs: So Nicole, can you tell me how you got started in this field? Like how did you positive psychology and stem? Like how did you decide to combine those two things into a career? 

Nicole Tschierske: Yeah, that's the thing I didn't, and I know you have with your podcast, you help many people try and how can I even figure out what I want?

Where am I in five years? Honestly, if you had asked me five years ago, where do you see yourself? It would not have been anywhere near where I am right now. So sometimes these things just happen to us and we have to seize the opportunities that present themselves. But now to track back [00:04:00] a little bit, I'm a scientist, but education.

I studied food chemistry, and I have a PhD in chemistry, and that's also what I spent the first years of my career in. So in product innovation and con and product research, And then there was a restructuring within the company, which led to me being in a position for about one and a half years where I was working at 10% of my capacity, which was horrible because I really like being busy and feeling that I'm adding value.

And so being completely, yeah, I'm not challenged. It really led to a blow out. And that started to get so bad that I enlisted the help of a coach because, I was doing nothing all day at work. And the only thing I could do after work was like on my couch, I was so low in energy. And then I started working with the coach and within four sessions, he had me back in my energy, or at least putting it up again, trying new [00:05:00] strategies, knocking on doors, speaking to other people.

And. I was so amazed. Like how did you do that? I want to be able to do that too. And that's when I started my coaching training and. Yeah, it's just, I dunno, it's just things started happen for Ebeling from there. So that is the way how I transitioned in my corporate job away from science, into change management.

So doing people stuff there as well. And I started building my coaching practice to really help other women in stem to not to transition out of stem necessarily, but to. Take matters into their own hands and create opportunities for themselves within their current company. Because I think there's a lot of, there's a lot of magic that can happen now.

Jette Stubbs: I love it. So there are two key things that you said that really stuck out to me. One is you did a PhD and then you went into a corporate environment. So I'm assuming that's like [00:06:00] corporate research. First. As someone that did a PhD, a lot of people think, okay, I should go and do a PhD's. Whenever I talk to people who haven't done a PhD, they're like, oh my gosh, you have to be so smart.

If you did a PhD and you probably are making so much money and they have all these assumptions on the outs. If you haven't done it and the PhD seems super intimidating, and it's you have this level of knowledge of academia that makes you almost like this untouchable kind of intimidating figure.

And then if you have done a PhD, you're like, what the hell is this? This was so stressful. This was the most demoralizing experience I've ever had in my life. This was, this could be so there's high rates of depression. There's all these obstacles that come with doing a PhD, particularly in stem as a woman.

 There are additional hurdles that are there. So how did you make that transition from like first, what made you decide to do a PhD? And then why did you not go into [00:07:00] academia? Which is a typical route that is expected from a 

Nicole Tschierske: PhD. So first of all, it really breaks my heart. When you say these things, because it shouldn't have, it shouldn't be like that.

Yeah. It should be a fun thing because we're going into science because we're fascinated by the subject. And because we want to explore and research and discover new things and then to have all of those things happening. I feel for those who go through that, And at the same time, I'm very grateful for the opportunity that I had because I actually did my PhD in the industry.

So it wasn't cooperation with the university. But the research I was doing was inside of the industry cosmetics industry. It was and on deodorants. So it had a huge application focus, which aligned. So there was some real research going on there yet. It wasn't just, developing new products for the business, but it was really researching why some active ingredients work in some formulations and not others.

And but it had [00:08:00] this application focus. And also because I was inside of that team within the company, I didn't have to do this half and half, it's a Germany. The way it works typically is when you do your PhD at a uni, you your gain, you're getting paid. Let's say half the money and just basically, you're supposed to spend 50% of your time teaching and looking after students and the other 50% per percent of your time researching.

And that way you can imagine when the workload gets high with the students, then your own research takes a backseat and it just drags on and on. And then sometimes people are there for four or five years. So I was really in the lucky position to be able to just have like a. Quote unquote full-time position.

So I wasn't paid the same as a normal employee that it was way less, but nevertheless, I had hundred percent of my time available to just focus on doing the research. And that was really quite [00:09:00] luxurious. And and I decided to do my PhD simply because the, so it was like a D so before I did my diploma thesis, to get my degree and And the T the topic wasn't done yet, so there was the interest from the company.

I really loved the topic B and I noticed, okay. I really only just got started in those nine months. So I really want to spend proper time on that. And it was. So I wasn't like hell bent on doing a PhD. I knew I loved researching and the I had the opportunity and so I said, yeah, why not?

Yeah. But no, I'm not smarter than anyone else. 

Jette Stubbs: I don't think any most PhDs. People who have PhDs that I know don't promote that they're smarter than anyone else. I think it's just some from the outside, it can feel very intimidating. When you see somebody has doctor in front of their name, you, it can be intimidating to feel like, okay, I'm going to speak to this person, like a normal human being.

 But that's, I find it's just a real [00:10:00] fear. So I really appreciate you sharing you, sharing that. So then you decided to go into a corporate job. Oh, wait. Before I get into that, one of the things that you really did that I loved is I find one, a lot of people that go in they're doing their masters and their PhDs.

They're doing it because they don't really know what they want to do. They know, they just found something that they love. And so they figured let me become a teacher in it. And they, then they don't really do any research into what it takes to become a professor. They just keep on doing what they love and they figure it all come together because you get the education, you get the experience to do the hard work and it'll all come together.

But you did it very differently. You did what people should do. You were constantly applying your research to real-world problems so that when you graduated right. First of all, that's amazing lesson to take from you right there. Just based on your own personal story, then you get into your corporate career.

And I, I find interesting what you said. You had a low workload. You were using 10% of your capacity, but then you also had low [00:11:00] energy. From it at the end of the day. And those two things, people don't usually associate. It's okay, maybe I'm not working at my full capacity at work so I can have more energy.

And I found that not to be true if you're not engaged during eight hours of the day, you just feel like mind numbingly just still and dead at the end of the day. So can you tell me a bit more about how that felt and then how you chose going about getting a coach? 

Nicole Tschierske: Yeah. So and the difference was so stocked.

So the first years of my corporate career, I was in a team doing consumer goods, innovation. We were like so busy. We had all of those fun projects to work on. We could really play to our strengths and all of us, it was really great. And then there's the restructuring happened and then. Zero, no more demand says, let's just wait, let's wait, we have to figure out how we're organizing everything and so on.

And then over time, and yes, it might sound ridiculous. And I also, for myself, as time [00:12:00] progressed and I kept begging my boss can I not please get involved in other projects or this or that? There was always this, no, please be patient. And yeah, it was really. I just fed so, so useless.

And it's fun the first few weeks, maybe, where you can just play publish all day with your colleagues. No joke. So sad,

but over time, sick. What do you do? Doubt only so many YouTube videos that you want to watch, or what do you do with eight hours is an incredibly long time each day to just sit there, twiddling your thumbs, really? And it just became this thing where I wear anything that resembled a routine in my life.

Even when the next weekend came around, it's oh my God. How can it be Saturday? Again, it can't be Saturday again, anything that looked like a routine and just dragged me down so much. [00:13:00] And it got so bad, actually at some point that I was sick. Can I please give back my salary? I have not earned this in any way.

 And then that was for me then it's okay, something's gotta give you. And then you, and you have coaching. And and the company that I work for has they have this arrangement with a bunch of coaches where an employee can anonymously. So basically the company would know who goes there and for what topic.

So you could just go and get some sessions for free, and that is a really great offer. And so I went and got that help and. The first thing that he did for me was to validate my experience because I was thinking, about my knee, I'm crazy. It's who wouldn't want this life? Getting paid a ton of money to do nothing all day.

And but he said, yeah, no, it's really horrible. Especially if you are driven and motivated and you [00:14:00] want to. Contribute really. And so that was the first thing. And and he also said to me, no, honestly, it's like, it's no surprise that you are exhausted at the end of the day because you just spent your whole day managing yourself and your emotions.

There was no moment where you get it to flow. No moment where you could just, be like play to your strengths or do energy. You would just sit there. 

Jette Stubbs: Yeah, that's so true. First of all, I agree with you. I've been there playing Pokemon, go personally. I wasn't paying it. My colleague was playing it, but we were trying to get, I don't know, one of the Pokemons to sit on my lap through his phone.

It was a dark time. We were just trying to pass the time, however possible through in any sort of conversation or anything to make the time go by until we just literally started bringing our personal laptops and doing some. Closing our office store and being like, we're just going to make the most out of this [00:15:00] because it was just, we couldn't handle it.

But I was in that same place that you were talking about, where I was making good money. Everybody was like, oh, you're so young. And you got this amazing job with this pension. And if you stay here, like for the next 20 years, and one of these is 20 years, I'd want to clutch my heart. You're like, oh my God, I can't do this.

I can't live like this for 20 years. Even if, even if the money's there, it's just. It can't like, I'm not making the impact that I want. And then I started to question like, okay, is it some sort of they always say this millennial entitlement stuff to want to make impact or create a change.

And I'm like, is this is it that, or is it that what I'm saying makes sense. And that I should have the ability to do this because that's what I thought. I thought I was getting into this job where I'd be able to make an impact and make a change and do stuff that I cared about. So I just. Just revalidating that all over again, that you are not alone on that journey.

So you go to this coach and now you're [00:16:00] learning about positive psychology. You have stem. How did you get to where you, what you're doing now first? What are you doing now? And how did you get here? 

Nicole Tschierske: Yeah, so I'm doing two things. I still have my corporate career. And this is doing the change management work, meaning I help companies when they changed business processes.

And there's a lot of change. Like people will have to use new tools and work in new ways with each other. So my responsibility is to make sure that we bring the people with us. And everybody knows at the end. Okay. So this is what we're going to do now. And so that is what I'm doing in my corporate job.

And next to that, I have my coaching practice where I, like I mentioned focus on women in stem and how that happened was that when I was working with that coach, like I said, I was amazed as to the effect it had, him just asking me a few questions and that's when I started my coaching training and that's when I [00:17:00] also, where that kind of like site stream slowly begin to develop.

 But at the same time within the company, I started knocking on your doors. I was in, instead of just talking to my boss and my boss' boss, I also then started to engage with my director at the time. And with the HR business partner that was responsible for me. And I was just really. Frank about it's look, this has got to stop.

It's either I don't, you give me something proper to do, or I have to leave because I don't know what to do. And with that can be opportunity to do like a secondment internally, meaning that even without formally changing jobs, I had the opportunity to contribute on another project that was running and.

I got it. I got exposure to a whole new area again at the beginning, I was in the science area. And so this project was in supply chain. And when you're in a big corporate like [00:18:00] this to something, they never touch. You never, you don't even, you don't even know that are people working on this kind of things.

And so that was a whole new experience. And that also that's basically where I got to know my new boss. So we had the chance to already work together without having to, commit. I got to know him, he got to know me, then I noticed, okay, they have to speak transformation project coming up. I'm now getting into all of this people, stuff was to, with the coaching training that I was doing.

And so basically the opportunity came up that they needed a change manager for that project. And so I. Literally wrote the job description descriptions. Okay, you have this project, you have this need, this is what I could do. And then we, fine tune it together. And that's how I got. Basically quote unquote, the perfect job and perfect does not mean every day is rainbows and daisies, but [00:19:00] I get to do the things that I like doing.

Most of the time I get to play to my strengths, I get to learn and grow all of the, I have an amazing boss and all of that. 

Jette Stubbs: That's amazing. And that touches on one of the things that I was excited to get you on the talk podcast, talk about today. Why you don't need to look for a new job, the moment you feel under challenged and overlooked and how to create a position you love in the company you already work for.

So what are some tips that you have for people around that who are in that journey? Because I think a lot of people are in this place where they feel under challenged. And right now, particularly during the pandemic, people are afraid to question or rock the boat too much or say, Hey, I'm not doing enough.

Does that mean you're going to let me go? Is there, how did, how would you recommend that people navigate 

that? 

Nicole Tschierske: Yeah. Okay. So first I want to make a distinction between feeling under challenged for a month and having a board for four out for one and a half years. So there is a difference there. Something that happens is when you start a new role [00:20:00] and especially if it's something quite different compared to what you've done before then typically at the beginning, you're going like, or, oh my God.

Oh my God. Oh my God. Because there's so much to learn and you feel it. Like you can't catch up enough or quickly enough. This goes on for about six months. Then you start to get your routines down and you get into this really nice sweet spot where you learn at the same rate that you offer value.

Yes at the beginning is small learning, then really generating proper output. But then you get into that sweet spot and that can go on for one, one and a half years. So let's say you start a new role about one and a half, two years in. You might feel like you're plateauing. And you start to get that first moment of, okay.

I'm a bit under challenged here, but that's just because you're not so hyper anymore on the learning and growing because you really have your great routines. You have all of the technical stuff down by now and so on. And [00:21:00] that is the moment where I actually say, okay, stay another year in this position and use all of that bandwidth that you now have to develop.

Any other skills that you might need, that you don't have the bandwidth for when you start your new role, because it's just starting from, the craziest, slightly overwhelmed feeding again, because you have to get the new technical elements down. And so these skills would be something like stakeholder management improving your communication skills, learning more about how the business works and how things.

Fit together and how it may be more strategic thinking if that's not your jam and all of these kinds of things. And with that, you can. Roll a lot more and you can even take the position that you're into new Heights. So that is one way of being under challenged, but not having to look for a new job right away, by all means, if you are like for one year and you work at [00:22:00] 10% capacity, get out of there something new, but again, it doesn't have to be a new employer.

It can be in the same company. And for that, I really recommend just go talking to people, not in a sense or not in a way that, do you have a job? Do you have job? Do you have job, but go and talk to people about your strengths, about your aspirations, about what you really like doing, and then, word of mouth, it will travel and.

The leadership team in your company, they're always talking about succession planning. They're always talking about the, the talent pipeline, who to develop, how could we switch people around? There's always somewhere, there's a need for some extra resource. Again, you might have a secondment, you might just help out part time in a project.

Things like this, plenty of opportunities. 

Jette Stubbs: That's amazing advice, but how would you go about having that conversation? So let's say you're trying to go and [00:23:00] approach your manager. Like, how did you tell your manager that you were working at 10% capacity? 

Nicole Tschierske: Yeah, he knew. Because I was asked, because I was so in Germany you don't have that That easy, higher fire kind of ways that you often in the U S so I can't really, I can't really judge the risk riskiness of that in an, in another job market in Germany, you are quite protected as an employee.

And so just because the company fails to give you proper work, it doesn't mean they can just let you go from one day to the next. So that is an element to consider but. I was to, and it's not that I told him like, Hey, I'm just like, I'm just having a ball here. I'm just not doing anything, but I was asking, can I please contribute to this one?

How can I get involved in that project? And so on. And I was just, coming from a place of, I want to contribute. I want to do my job properly. What [00:24:00] can I do? Can you please give me move work? And. I was just, I know now it's just my personal way of how I approach things of being very open and honest with people from early on.

And it might happen that like one day I would meet someone who who doesn't appreciate that as much. And then I might get burned. So it might backfire at some point, but so far it's always been the best policy for me to be open about just what is going on for me. 

Jette Stubbs: Thank you. So as you are navigating, as you are coaching people through navigating, like finding these different opportunities within their current organization There's often these feelings of who am I to go and speak to this director?

Who am I going to go and ask for this additional response responsibility, who am I to ask to help on this project? And there's this approach that people will take [00:25:00] where. Like you said, they're going out and essentially saying, asking for a job, asking can you hire me? Can you tell me what to do?

Can you like, how do you what are the questions that you recommend people ask to make sure that they are coming from like a serve first. Like I am trying to help you approach. 

Nicole Tschierske: That is a really good question. One thing that I have learned is and something that I now live by is dig the well before you're thirsty.

And especially when it comes to building relationships and your network and all of that, you can't start connecting with people the moment you need something from them, because then it fits. Then it gets this icky transaction feel to it. But if you start building relationships early on where you genuinely don't want anything from them, other to know how they are and what's going on in their world, that is the best place.

And. You can do [00:26:00] this, obviously you can strategically seek out to connect to people, but you can also, that is something that I really liked doing and that I highly recommend is to be more intentional about the interactions that you did, you already have. I don't know, maybe your project needs to present to a steering group where a number of senior managers are in there.

You could just go, let's say you have to present there and you can just stand, ask one of them a few days later. It was my first time or my second time presenting in this group. And I would really like to improve the way that I live. I deliver information for you. Would you be willing to give me feedback?

So that is one like very organic way to start to engage with them and just, just be on people's radar, without give me a job, give me a job, then other opportunities of where. You just, even with the people on your level. So your peers from other [00:27:00] teams just be the best colleague that you can be.

It's notice what are they struggling with? What are they trying to get done and see how you can help? And it doesn't mean you have to jump on every project. Sometimes it's just making an introduction, forwarding a resource or link or sharing some knowledge that you have. And. People talk, they talk about the bad stuff, but they also talk about the good stuff.

And so I've heard that many times that somebody would rave about someone to their manager and it would travel all the way back around. And this is just how it goes. So don't underestimate the power. This has, just to use those daily interactions that you have with people anyways. 

Jette Stubbs: Okay.

That's great advice. And I know before the podcast, we were talking about how you see imposter syndrome and lack of confidence is some unhelpful labels that could be sabotaging growth. Could you [00:28:00] elaborate on that? That's the first time I've heard it about it from that angle? 

Nicole Tschierske: Yeah, so naming it like that.

Can be helpful in the first moment where you, but just where you're just overwhelmed with this feeling of yeah. Feeling like a fraud basically. And then if you could say, okay, this, I feel like an imposter just naming it. That once that's totally fine to just, make it a bit more tangible and just tell your brain what's going on instead of being in mess.

But. If we continue to subscribe to that and just keep staying, I have imposter syndrome, I just lack confidence. Then one of two things often happens. So Ida. We start to use it as an excuse to not challenge ourselves or go outside of our comfort zone anymore. I can't do this because I have this imposter syndrome.

Yeah. It's just my imposter syndrome holding me back. I don't want to, I don't want to negate any way, [00:29:00] anyone who is experiencing that, I experienced it, regularly, but I choose not to tell myself that I haven't like over and over again. And the second thing that can happen is that we really, that we just like it's, it almost becomes like a clinical diagnosis and we buy into it so much that we don't really get out of it anymore.

And you can imagine it's like when you're driving a car and you're looking outside of your window, There's only so long that you can go straight, so it's really distracting you from where you want to go. So what I like to do for myself, but also help my clients with is okay let's share, please tell me, how are you feeling?

What is going on? Okay. This is all valid and real, because we are experiencing those types of feelings. But now instead of. Obsessing over these things or working on those things. We redirect the focus to where we want to go. What are the small things that are already [00:30:00] good and that we want to nurture and grow, or where do we want to get to and what skills do we want to burn to get there and yeah, to just really, yeah, that's just, does it make sense?

Jette Stubbs: Yes. Yes, it does. It does. So that okay. First of all, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. It's like you're accepting like this victim mentality that you are a victim, right? And you are limiting yourself to this new identity that you're creating yourself for yourself. As somebody who's limited by this fear, imposter syndrome is a real thing.

It's something that we experienced, but are you going to label yourself as someone who is limited by this fear of imposter syndrome? Because courage is really pushing through fear, right? Courage is acting on fear despite of fear. Yeah. So I do get what you're saying and that's it makes a lot of sense.

Cause I AB I absolutely know what you're talking about in what I've experienced with [00:31:00] my clients, but sometimes those fears can become so. Like almost like physical, they physically manifest and like jitters, right? The jitters when our hands shake in an interview or when we are so terrified to Talk to our supervisor, open a door to start a conversation that we may start tearing up and then we can't hold the conversation.

It's I get it. Cause you're both acknowledging the fear, but then saying, okay, we have to find a way to work through it. So that I think is it's a really powerful thing. And I absolutely. I agree that you shouldn't label, like we experienced difficult things. We experienced different emotions, but we are not those difficult emotions.

And you're making sure that people aren't labeling themselves according to their difficulties or obstacles. So I think that's amazing advice. And my. Next question is, so what would you say is then like the secret or the [00:32:00] technique that you'd recommend for people building that senior level of credibility to start to have those important conversations?

Nicole Tschierske: Yeah, so credibility, it really starts with ourselves. So believing, believing what. What we say ourselves, and there are different elements to that. First of all, to really know ourselves, being so that we're really rooted in our strengths. It's like knowing what our strengths are, knowing what our values are, knowing what drives us at work and so on.

So really once we understand ourselves in that way, It just feels so good and so aligned and liberating that it also becomes easier and easier to talk about that with other people, because we're not making stuff up, but we're just sharing who we are and what we're all about. And so that is one element, so that you first start believing in yourself.

So that's the element of really credibility and. That goes hand in hand with [00:33:00] another aspect that I find so important is communication. So knowing what to say and how to say it to people in, that it inspires action and drives your ideas for what and all of this. And this is both how you talk about yourself, but also how you talk about your subjects.

So do you actually know what your point is or are you just. Sharing a whole bunch of information. Do you have an opinion that is for, or against something? And are you making a contribution either by sharing your own insights or just by asking insightful questions? So these are ways how you basically, how you show up and at the same time, how you interact and communicate with others that.

People can't help it, but to start to perceive you as an authority in your field and those changes, they can really cook big. Once you make those small adjustments to yourselves, like within three [00:34:00] months, you can have a whole new reputation. 

Jette Stubbs: So what are some steps that you take when you were trying to identify your strengths?

Nicole Tschierske: There's so many ways. Okay. Let's take three different ways. So one, one way is to do a strengths test. There are plenty of them on the internet. Two of them that I really love, one is called via character strengths. So via character strengths, so you can Google it. It's a free assessment that you can do.

And there's a whole lot of magic around these character strengths as well. And the second one is called strengths profile and that costs a little bit, but it not only shows you your strengths, but also your. Weaknesses, things to watch out for, and also learn competencies, meaning the things that you may be good at, but that costs you energy.

And so maybe you want to go in that direction where you need a whole lot of that. So that is. Taking [00:35:00] taking a strengths test of some sort. The second thing exercise that you can do is to really look at the things that you enjoy doing both at work and in your personal life, and some successes that you have had and make a list of all of those.

And then. Find strengths in there. So let's say if you are someone who likes, I don't know, hiking and admitting, and these are things you could do all day long, then you could locate what strengths are I played at, get me so into flow when I'm doing these things. Okay. Maybe it's enduring, maybe it's patience, maybe it's attention to detail, maybe, this kind of thing.

So that's another way. And the third one is to really ask for ask other people. So just ask them. Okay. Can you tell me some stories where you have seen me at my best and what did you really like about me there? So what is it that makes me unique in those moments? And from there you can also draw strings.

Jette Stubbs: Those are, I see the one of the top three ways that I [00:36:00] usually recommend people draw out their strengths. It's really, it really is a powerful process. It's so simple, but it's also so powerful. There is a question that I often get asked, and I'm curious as to how you answer it. Can I just take a quiz to figure out what career I should have?

Nicole Tschierske: No, 

Jette Stubbs: that's usually my answer too, but what's your ration, because you did mention like taking the, I think it's the StrengthsFinder profile that you and the via character profile. Why is your answer? No. 

Nicole Tschierske: Because how many zillion different jobs are there in the world and how many answers fit in a quiz?

Like literally, so already there you're limiting yourself to the knowledge of the quiz creator basically. And he, or she may have absolutely no clue like of many of the jobs that exist. Actually, if you are, if you want to. Figure out what kind of work would be really good for you? Then there's a book I really like, which is really good.

It's from the school of life and it's [00:37:00] called a job to love. And it takes you through, first of all, it's very, well-written it covers a lot of areas and it takes you through chapter by chapter Frutos exercises that help you. First of all, it can get rid of all of the, shorts that you take with you from your family and your upbringing.

 And then second, it helps you to look at the things that you enjoy doing get to a more abstract level, because if you work, if you like working on, I don't know, say let's say you, you really like drawing. Or whatever, then your more abstract level of that would be something like being creative or it's like design or whatever kind of things.

And then you can go down again and you can find, because you don't have to be a painter just because you like drawing, you might be a great graphic designer or you might be a great art teacher is, so those things that you enjoy doing [00:38:00] they can show up in so many different. Jobs and professions.

And that book really takes you through a super nice journey to uncover these things for yourself. 

Jette Stubbs: Thank you for that recommendation. I've never heard of it, but it sounds like it's really helpful. Oh, okay. First of all you've laughed. I need to say, stop saying first of all, so much, but you have left.

It was so much yes. Advice. What are like one to three actionable steps you'd want to leave somebody who is like in that job, in that place, that we've were both in where they're feeling under challenged, or maybe they're like unemployed and trying to find work. What are like three actionable steps that you would recommend?

Nicole Tschierske: Bid in that work is invaluable. Both for educating yourself about, I dunno, other people, other professions, and just to get the word out and to ought, to hear what is happening. [00:39:00] Not that always this person that you're speaking to is something or someone that can help you, but maybe they know someone.

And then they know someone and science to building a network. This is something everybody can start doing right away. And the other one would be really to. Take good care of yourself. So if you can change work like, or your work situation, right this second, what are some other pillars in your lives that you can make sure that really full and supportive for you?

So what about the relationships that you have with family and friends? How are they nurturing for you? Are you taking good care of your. Health, both physical and mental health. How what do your finances look like? What is your living situation? Is your house tidy is like all of the small things.

Just look around what are the things that can contribute for me to have my energy levels up, despite that one thing in mind or the one area in my life [00:40:00] not being where I wanted to be. 

Jette Stubbs: And when you are trying to build this network and potentially find a mentor, what are some things that you've found particularly useful in that process?

Like what are some actionable advice like don't I know one of the big ones is don't just reach out to people and just look for a job. And I love that you gave the advice like. Is it the phrase dig your well before you're thirsty. So make sure that you're constantly building out this network and you're not just waiting until you need a job to then go to a bunch of people being like, I need a job.

I need a job. I need money tomorrow. Pay me, find a way to pay me. You're doing this in advance and before it, you need this opportunity. So what are some other like best practices around building that network or finding a good mentor? 

Nicole Tschierske: That's a really good question. Don't oh yeah. Release expectations.

I guess everybody is busy these days, especially, it feels so if people aren't getting back to you right away it's not out of a bad intention. Getting upset about it [00:41:00] and sending harsh messages about it is really no good way. So always, be considerate like, it's okay to follow up.

Sometimes we have to follow up two or three times even, but. Not with not, not getting bitchy about it is what it was. Yeah. 

Jette Stubbs: Okay. That's amazing advice. So where can people find you, Nicole? Where can people go to learn more about what you do and 

Nicole Tschierske: connect with you? Yeah, sure. Come and find me on LinkedIn.

I it's like my. One and only social media platform really. And other than that everyone's invited to, into join the next round of women in stem reimagined. It's a one week professional development. Opportunity for free. Basically I hosted in March and September. So whenever you're listening to this, it might be coming around soon.

And yeah. So if you want to learn and grow, this [00:42:00] is the place to be for that week. 

Jette Stubbs: Now, before we wrap up, I do have one more question. So why women in stem, what are some of the unique obstacles that women in stem face in regards to career development that made you choose to like. Choose this group of 

Nicole Tschierske: people.

So the obstacles have really similar to, to, you can go into any other field. Why chose women in stem is because I can relate to them so much because I have experienced the same things of, where I was stuck at the lab bench compared to going out and meeting people or where I had this feeling of, contributing with all of the knowledge that I have, and instead of being possible before promotions and I can, when they talk to me about their life, I can relate, I can understand where it's whereas opposed to, if somebody I didn't know, from supply chain would talk to me about.

What they're doing on an ISA. I'm sorry, I'm drawing a blank here, [00:43:00] but if somebody talks to me about analytical methods or things like this, I'm saying, okay, I have an analogy for this. Okay. We can talk about that. So that's good. Plus our brains really work in the same way. So I can imagine with, if somebody wouldn't be more in the creative spaces and as an artist and so on my brain, Works very differently to them.

And so we would often not have the same thought process or approach. And so it, it wouldn't be a great fit. 

Jette Stubbs: Okay. That makes a lot of sense. Thank you so much, Nicole. You're up so many useful gems today. Thank you so much for your advice. And please go and find a call. Her links will be included in the show notes.

Nicole Tschierske: No, thanks for having me.

Jette Stubbs: Next week, we are going to be talking about negotiations. So how do you negotiate your price? How do you negotiate salary? How do you set the prices within your business? How do you justify how much you're [00:44:00] worth to an employer and the salary that you should be charging? When it comes down to negotiations, nobody likes naming a number.

Nobody likes. Talking about why they think they should be paid that number. And nobody likes the back and forth bartering where maybe I shouldn't say nobody, but most of us don't. So we are going to be chatting with some negotiation experts. You are going to have the opportunity to speak with some CEOs from some businesses that.

Focus on this. We are going to be bringing in people with diverse perspectives. I am so excited to have like other women of color, but like diverse business owners who are approaching negotiation from having very little experience and just starting out to having a breadth of experience in 20 plus years.

And being able to talk about it with such ease and giving you the [00:45:00] step-by-step processes. If you have ever been afraid. To talk about how much you should charge and to name your worth tune back in next week. 

You're listening to the happy career formula with Jette Stubbs where we talk about how to find what you love to do and turn it into ways to make money, whether that's a job, freelance service or a business, so you can live life on your own terms. 

this is a career and business podcast, but my two main goals for what I want to offer you are: one the tools to build a career that aligns with who you are.

So you can make money in a way that funds your life goals and the lifestyle that you want to build for yourself. Two, to have healthier relationships with yourself and others. 

Because I think that if you have your financial resources together and you have good people around you, you can live a happier life.

 Subscribe and leave a review [00:46:00] if you are enjoying the podcast. if you know somebody who you think may find this useful, please feel free to share it, with a friend.